speak, when I like, and hold ray tongue when I think proper; and whatever weight and force I may have been represented to have, connected with my friends, I would give it in support of the noble Lord; I would vote, Sir, for these measures, were I upon my oath, which seems now to be the fashionable Parliamentary test [alluding to those objections he always made to the oath of the Committee appointed to try controverted elections;] and whether I am upon my honour, or my oath, I will give a hearty concurrence to these measures.

General Conway. I would not take up the time of the House at this late hour of the night, but for a very short time. I never did maintain that Great Britain had no right to tax America; I said taxation and legislation had no connection; I allowed that we had an abstract right to tax Ireland, and also America, in the Declaratory Act; but I do not know the time when it will be proper and right so to tax. This measure will throw us into great difficulties, which I do not know when we shall get out of. The tax upon tea does nothing for our revenue, it is no object; as long as you continue the doctrine of taxing America, you will never be at rest. Where is this olive branch I have heard so much talk about? It is not to be found in these measures. I do not wish to see the military protected from the laws of their country; if they commit an offence, why not leave them open in the same manner as others are? I have said, "that we are the aggressors," and I say so still; after so many innovations of the Stamp Act, and other taxes, I am for cap-in-hand measures- for lenity and tenderness to the Americans. There is an universal right in persons to be heard at this Bar in judicial cases, when they apply for it; but I rise, Sir, only to lament what I cannot prevent; and that this spirit may be rightly directed, I do hope that the Americans will wait till better times; for I think it is better to have peace with America, and war with all the world, than be at war with America; because, if they are at peace with us, they will contribute to support us in time of war.

Lord G. Germainc. I hope I shall be excused, Sir, for trespassing a few minutes on the House. I should be sorry to be a supporter of those measures, which are termed wicked and tyrannical; but as I cannot think that this Bill has any such designs, I shall readily adopt it. The trial of the military has been much objected to. What is it, Sir, but a protection of innocence? Will you not wish for that, Sir? America, at this instant, is nothing but anarchy and confusion. Have they any one measure but what depends upon the will of a lawless multitude? Where are the Courts of Justice? Shut up. Where are your Judges? One of them taking refuge in your Court. Where are your Council? Where is your Governor? All of them intimidated by a lawless rabble. Can these men expect a fair trial? No, Sir, at present they have no existence as any part of the executive power. It is objected, that the Judges receive their salaries from the Crown, and not from the People. It is to me a matter of surprise, that any gentleman could think seriously a moment, that this Government wanted no amendment. It has been said, give up the Tea Tax: Can you give up the Tea Tax, without the constitution? Support your supremacy, whatever you do; legislation cannot but be part of it. It has been observed, that we negotiated about Falkland's Island; I wish, Sir, we could negotiate with the Americans upon the same terms. If they would do as the Spaniards did, that is, disown the fact, and give up the point in question, we might then negotiate. The Americans, it is true, have made this claim several years, of exemption from taxation, but they have never yet carried it. Great Britain, is desired to be at peace with her Colonies, by an acquiescence in their claim; but do you call such a submission to be a peace? I really think the first Bill, for blocking up the port, is the only Bill of pains and penalties, when you deprive that port of its trade; and this was the Bill to which the honorable gentleman (Colonel Barré) gave his hearty concurrence. The Bill before you is not such a Bill: there are no pains nor penalties; their Government will be restored, and private property protected. It has been said, go to the King's Bench with this complaint, as in former times; but let me ask gentlemen, whether they can ameliorate or alter their charter? No, Sir, they can do nothing but say guilty or not guilty, by forfeiting their charter. It is incumbent on every man to give his opinion from his own breast upon this great occasion; but Sir, I cannot help once more condemning that mob of People, which, under the profession of liberty, carries dark designs in its execution; but my utmost wish is, that these measures, in their consequences, may turn out well, and contrary to what has been apprehended.

Mr. C. Fox. I take this to be the question-whether America is to be governed by force, or management? I never could conceive that the Americans could be taxed without their consent. Just as the House of Commons stands to the House of Lords, with regard to taxation and legislation, so stands America with Great Britain. There is not an American, but who must reject and resist the principle and right of our taxing them. The question then is shortly this: Whether we ought to govern America on these principles? Can this country gain strength by keeping up such a dispute as this? Tell me when America is to be taxed, so as to relieve the burthens of this country. I look upon this measure to be in effect taking away their charter; if their charter is to be taken away, for God's sake let it be taken away by law, and not by a legislative coercion: but I cannot conceive that any law whatever, while their charter continues, will make them think that you have a right to tax them. If a system of force is to be established, there is no provision for that in this Bill; it does not go far enough; if it is to induce them by fair means, it goes too far. The only method by which the Americans will ever think they are attached to this country, will be by laying aside the right of taxing. I consider this Bill as a bill of pains and penalties, for it begins with a crime, and ends with a punishment; but I wish gentlemen would consider, whether it is more proper to govern by military force, or by management.

Mr. Attorney General Thurlow. The form of the present law was adopted to give magistracy that degree of authority which it ought to be vested with for the execution of the laws; but this Bill carries with it no degree of severity, unless the pleasure of disobeying is greater than, that of the punishment. To say that we have a right to tax America, and never to exercise that right, is rediculous, and a man must abuse his own understanding very much not to allow of that right. To procure the tax by requisition is a most ridiculous absurdity, while the sovereignty remains in this country; and the right of taxing was never in the least given up to the Americans. Their charter is mere matter of legislative power; and whoever looks into that charter, will see that no power whatever was meant to be given them so as to controul the right of taxation from Great Britain.

Mr. E. Burke. I have little to say, Sir, with hopes to convince the House, but what I have to offer, I shall do with freedom. It has been asserted, that the nation is not alarmed, that no petitions of discontent are received. How can persons complain, when sufficient time is not given them to know what you are about? We have now seen the whole of this great work; I wish all was good that it contained. I am afraid a long series of labours and troubles will succeed. The question that is before you is a great one; it is no less than the proscription of provinces, and cities, and nations, upon their trial; except that when the saints of God are to judge the world I do not know one of greater importance. I will endeavour to comply with the temper of the House, and be short in what I have to offer. [The House being noisy, several members going out, soon after which he got up and said,] I find, Sir, I have got my voice, and I shall beat down the noise of the House. Why did I compromise? [Here he produced the letters from Lord Hillsborough to the Americans, which declared, that his Majesty, or his Ministers, had not any intention of laying any further taxes on America.] He dwelt some considerable time on the words which the letter contained, as a sort of declaration to the Americans that they should not be taxed. If you govern America at all, Sir, it must be by an army; but the Bill before us, carries with it the force of that army; and I am of opinion, they never will consent without force being used. I have to protest against this Bill, because you refuse to hear the parties aggrieved. Consider what