Copy of a Representation of the Board of Trade, to the King, dated January 9th, 1765, on affairs of the Province of Quebec.

The Lord North also presented to the House, by his Majesty's command:

Copy of a Memorial of the new subjects of Quebec, to his Majesty.

Copy of a Memorial of Canadian subjects, to the King.

Copy of a Memorial of the citizens and Burgesses of Montreal, to the King.

Copy of a Memorial of the principal citizens of Quebec.

Memorial of the principal French inhabitants of Canada, in support of their Petition to the King.

And the titles of the said Papers were read:

Ordered, that the said Papers be referred to the consideration of the Committee of the whole House, on the Bill.

THURSDAY, June 2, 1774.

The Lord North presented to the House, by his Majesty's command:

A paper intituled, "Petition from the new Inhabitants of Quebec, to his Majesty."

Ordered, That the said Paper be referred to the consideration of the Committee of the whole House, on the Bill.

The Order of the Day being read, the House resolved itself into a Committee of Whole, upon the Bill.

General Carleton was called in and examined.

Mr. Mackworth. What was the proceedings and course of justice in Canada, when you first went there?

General Carleton. There is a Court of King's Bench and Court of Common Pleas, in which the proceedings are in the English form.

Mr. Mackworth. Did the Canadians express a dislike to the distribution of justice in that form?

General Carleton. In some things they did, in others they did not. I never heard them express a disapprobation of the criminal law of England; but in relation to the law in civil trials, they have disapproved it greatly.

Mr. Mackworth. Did they disapprove the trial by Jury?

General Carleton. Very much; they have often said to me, that they thought it very extraordinary that English gentlemen should think their property safer in the determination of tailors, shoe-makers, mixed with people in trade, than in that of the judges.

Mr. T. Townshend. But if they had juries such as they approved of, would they then object to the English civil law?

General Carleton. Their objections to that law are very numerous; they do not know what it is; and they expressed great apprehensions at being governed by a law of which they were ignorant: they also complained of the proceedings of the Courts being in a language they did not understand.

Lord North, Did the General hear them complain of the want of the trial by Jury in civil causes?

General Carleton, Never. Though I have heard the same men praise the English law in points wherein it favoured their own causes, who at other times were much against it.

Lord North. Did they express wishes of having an Assembly?

General Carleton. Very much the contrary. In the conversation I have had with them, they have all said that when they found what disputes the other Colonies had with the Crown, upon account of Assemblies, they would much rather be without them; and when they supposed that an Assembly, if they had one, would be chosen from the old British subjects only, expressed an horror at the idea of one.

Lord North. Does the General know the proportion of old subjects to those of new ones in Canada?

General Carleton. The Protestants in Canada are under four hundred; about three hundred and sixty; but the French inhabitants, who are all Catholics, amount to one hundred and fifty thousand.

Lord North, Are those three hundred and sixty, men of substance?

General Carleton. Much the greatest part of them are not. There are some that have purchased seignories, some in trade, and some reduced soldiers: but the majority are men of small substance.

Mr. Jenkinson. Is there much intercourse or communication between those three hundred and sixty and the rest of the Province?

General Carleton. Very little.

Lord North. Are those People, upon the whole, proper and eligible for an Assembly to be chosen from them?

General Carleton. I should apprehend by no means.

Mr. Phipps. What is the extent of the cultivated and populous part of Canada?

General Carleton. About three hundred miles.

Mr. Phipps. Are there any populous settlements detached from that line, at a distance?

General Carleton. None of consequence.

Mr. Phipps. Is the cultivation of the lands and the trade of the Province much increased since the conquest?

General Carleton. Very much.

Lord North. Does General Carleton attribute that increase to the introducing of the trial by Jury, and the English law?

General Carleton. By no means.

Mr. T. Townshend. To what then does the General attribute it ?

General Carleton. To the change from a state of war to one of peace; the Government was before extremely military; and military expeditions ever going on to a distance, great numbers of men lost, population hurt, and the People taken from the culture of the earth for those purposes. This change (for they have now enjoyed above ten years peace, with none of the inhabitants taken for the military) has wrought the increase of People.

Mr. Turner. Has not the increase of trade and wealth been much owing to the free export of corn?

General Carleton. I take it to be owing to the increase of People.

Mr. Turner. Was not the increase of cultivation owing to the export?

General Carleton. The cultivation I attribute to the increase of People. There must be the People before there could be the cultivation.

Lord North. Does the General know any thing of a Monsieur Le Brun.

General Carleton. I know him very well. He was a blackguard at Paris, and sent as a lawyer to Canada: there he gained an extreme bad character in many respects; he was taken up and imprisoned for a very filthy crime with children of eight or nine years old; for this he was fined, I think, twenty pounds, but being unable to pay it—

Mr. T. Townshend. I desire the General may withdraw. [He withdrew.] Sir, I know not what use is to be made of this part of the evidence; but sure I am, it is a most unprecedented thing, and such an one, as an independent member of Parliament, I cannot see and hear without interrupting it;—you are criminating a man unheard—not before you—and with whom you seem to have nothing to do.

Lord North. This Monsieur Le Brun has come over from Canada to make representations that it is the general opinion, desire, and wish of the Canadians, to have an Assembly: I thought it right to know how likely he was to know the opinion of that country; and what degree of dependance could be placed in his testimony—but I shall ask no more questions concerning him.

[The General called in again.]

Mr. Phipps. Were there any other objections to the English law than what the General has mentioned?

General Carleton. I recollect an instance against the criminal law. Some Canadian and English gentlemen were apprehended for a crime, and laid in goal;—the whole Province supposed them innocent, and the Jury found them so; the nobility complained, that by our law they were punished by a severe imprisonment, which, in the French law, they would have escaped. This made a great impression upon them, and prejudiced them very much against even our criminal law.