A conversation now ensued concerning a point of order, whether a Petition could be received concerning a Petition which lay before the House, but of which they could have no possible knowledge. This conversation lasted some time, in which Lord North, Mr. Rigby, the Solicitor General, Lord F. Campbell, and Mr. Gascoyne, were against the receiving it, complaining of the thinness of the House, and the lateness of the hour. But it was ably contended that it could be received, by Sir George Savile, Mr. Burke, and Mr. T. Townshend, who all shewed the difference there was between receiving a Petition and complying with its prayer. The thinness of the House, and the late hour, they treated with ridicule, by reminding their opponents, that when the question was first proposed the House was pretty full, and it was in the afternoon.

A motion was drawn up by Mr. Burke, in order for the point to be discussed, but as the House was so thin, there being but forty Members with the Speaker, it was with-drawn.

THURSDAY, January 26, 1775.

Ordered, That there be laid before this House an Account of the Value of the Exports and Imports to and from North America, from Christmas, 1762, as far as the same can be made up; distinguishing each Port and each year.

Ordered, That there be laid before this House an Account of the Value of the Exports and Imports to and from the West Indies, from Christmas, 1762, as far as the same can be made up; distinguishing each Port and each year.;

Mr. Alderman Hayley presented a second Petition from the Merchants, Traders, and others, of London, concerned in the commerce of North America, which was read, viz:

To the Honourable the Commons of GREAT BRITAIN, in Parliament assembled.

The humble Petition of the Merchants, Traders, and others, of the City of London, concerned in the commerce of North America, sheweth:

That your Petitioners did, on Monday, the 23d instant, present an humble Petition to this Honourable House, staling the nature and importance of the commerce between Great Britain and America; the repeated interruptions which of late years have happened therein; the alarming state to which that commerce is at present reduced, and the true cause, as your Petitioners apprehend, of the same. And relying on the justice of this Honourable House, to take the whole of the weighty matters so stated into their most serious consideration, did humbly pray, that this House would enter into a full and immediate examination of that system of commercial policy which had formerly been adopted and uniformly maintained, to the happiness and advantage of both countries, and would apply such healing remedies as can alone restore and establish the commerce between Great Britain and America on a permanent foundation.

Your Petitioners have ever conceived an opinion, resulting from education, and confirmed by reason and experience, that the connection between Great Britain and America, originally was, and ought to be, of a commercial kind; and that the benefits derived therefrom to the mother country are of the same nature. And observing the constant attention which the British Legislature had, for more than a century, given to these valuable objects, they have been taught to admire the regulations by which that connection had been preserved and those benefits secured, as the most effectual institution which human wisdom could have framed for those salutary purposes. Presuming, therefore, on this opinion, and supported by this observation, your Petitioners beg leave to represent to this Honourable House, that the fundamental policy of those laws of which they complain, and the propriety of enforcing, relaxing, or amending the same, are questions inseparably united with the commerce between Great Britain and America; and consequently, that the consideration of the one cannot be entered on without a full discussion of the other.

Your Petitioners observe by the votes of this Honourable House, that a Committee hath been appointed to take into consideration certain Papers presented to this House by Lord North, on Thursday, the 19th instant; and by the titles and dates of said Papers, and in particular of Nos. 148 and 149 of the same, your Petitioners are warranted in presuming that the said Papers contain matters respecting the present situation of America, and essentially concerning the mutual interests of your Petitioners and that country.

Under all these circumstances, your Petitioners find reason sincerely to lament, that this Honourable House has thought fit to refer the consideration of their said Petition to any other Committee than that to which the said Papers had previously been referred; and your Petitioners conceive, that by the resolution to which this House hath come, respecting the reference of their said Petition, they are absolutely precluded from the benefit of such a hearing in support of their said Petition, as can alone procure them that relief which the importance and present deplorable state of their trade require.

Your Petitioners therefore humbly pray this Honourable House, that they will take the premises into their immediate consideration, and will direct that your Petitioners may be heard by themselves or their Agents, in support of their said former Petition; and that no resolution respecting America may be taken by this Honourable House, or by any Committee thereof, until your Petitioners shall have been fully heard in support of their said Petition.

Mr. Hayley moved that the Order made upon Monday last, for referring the Petition of the Merchants, Traders, and others, of the City of London, concerned in the commerce of North America to the consideration of the Whole House, might be read.

And the said Order being read accordingly, Mr. Hayley then moved that the said Order be discharged.

He resented the indignity and mockery put on a great body of Merchants, in referring their business, which was the business of the Nation, and of the Empire, indeed, to a separate Committee, whose object was pretended to be no more than to form commercial regulations, which no Petition had required or asked; and which Committee had not a pretended concern in the great points of commercial policy, the ill-conduct of which threatened a most dangerous civil war. He expressed his fears that the rejection of the informations of the trading interest, and the precipitate hurry of resolutions in an uninformed Committee, or informed only so far as Ministry chose, must drive of a civil war with America.

Mr. Hotham contended that the Order should be discharged, and a new one made for hearing the Petitioners; that, on the ground of law, it was no more than what the Petitioners might claim as a judicial right; on the grounds of justice and reason, the claim was equally clear on the one side, equally proper to be granted on the other; and as to expediency, nothing could be more compatible with that than a hearing of the Petitioners, which, by affording information to the House, might guide their deliberations in the paths of wisdom.

Mr. Ham Stanley could not help persuading himself that interested and factious persons had induced the Merchants to sign these Petitions. He argued, with respect to the impropriety of discharging the Order and hearing the Petitioners, substantially thus: the only end which can be proposed in hearing the Petitioners at the bar, is information. What information could they lay before the House? Were they to allege, that whilst the disputes between Great Britain and America subsisted, their trade would undergo a temporary stagnation? This was to say nothing but what was already known; it was known that a stop-page of trade would be occasioned by the American disputes; there was no question but the stockholders and landed interest would be greatly affected by these disputes; but what of that? Unless the supremacy of Parliament and the rights of sovereignty were vigorously asserted by Great Britain, the American traffick could not subsist. To support the sovereignty was therefore to support the trade of Great Britain; and if, in attempting this arduous task, our commerce should be suspended, our funds should sustain a shock, and the landed property of individuals should experience a diminution, yet all these were evils gentlemen should patiently endure with firmness and magna-