self, it took off entirely from the pleasure it would otherwise cause, while it was founded in an insinuation against another, and given at his expense.

The Duke, of Manchester assured his Lordship, that he had no intention of directly alluding to the noble Lord mentioned.

Viscount Dudley observed, that the whole state of the evidence given at their Lordships' bar, had a direct contrary effect upon him from that proposed by those who combated the Bill; for when the interests of this country, the manning of our Navy, the increase of our Seamen, and the employment of our own people, came in competition with the pretended hardships and severities of the Bill, he not only thought that it should receive the approbation of the House on the ground it was taken up on, but that it ought to be made perpetual, in order to secure forever to this country so important a branch of commerce. The Colonies, were at present spared, by the lenity and mildness of Administration, who might carry fire and sword throughout the whole Continent of America. He totally differed from the noble Marquis, as to the conclusions he drew from the comparative state of the evidence of Mr. Watson, and its supposed agreement with that now on your Lordships' table, relative to the Exports to America in 1764, as he thought them both equally erroneous. The witness said, that the entries at the Custom House are generally more by one third than the Goods really shipped; and that he arid the rest of his brethren, put into a box unsigned papers, containing an account of what each of them exported. Will any noble Lord in this House affirm that there could be an accuracy in such a mode, whereby every man was at liberty to set down any quantity he thought proper, without a possibility of detection. If such be the information this House is to be, guided by, I am certain that no reliance ought to be had on it; and that it proves only, that both accounts ought equally to be rejected. He said, two of the noble Lords who spoke on the other side, seemed to feel greatly for the distresses of the Americans; but said not a syllable of the present miseries of our own Manufacturers, who were daily dismissed for want of employment; and whose sufferings would, he feared, if not prevented by this Bill, or some other of the same nature, become intolerable. For his part, he lived in the neighbourhood of one of the greatest manufacturing Towns in the Kingdom, (Birmingham,) and there the state of trade and the want of work was such, that should it continue much longer, the most dreadful consequences were justly to be dreaded.

Lord Camden rose and said: My Lords, I have so often, troubled your Lordships on the subject of America, that on every new occasion of speaking to it, I rise with great unwillingness and reluctance to encroach on your Lordships' attention; and indeed, I feel myself not a little wearied with, the fruitless efforts I have uniformly made since this business has been in agitation. My opinion, on the rights of England and the rights of America, is well known. I first formed it on the clearest conviction, and it continues the same, to this day. This opinion I have uniformly maintained; but the great and certain majorities in both Houses of Parliament; and the great numbers, for I admit there are Such, perhaps the majority without doors, differing from those, opinions, and overbearing with a high and powerful hand our feeble efforts, have almost wearied me into despair of obtaining any thing in this question, or on this subject, by argument or, debate; and I would not now give your Lordships this trouble, but from a consideration of the, duty in which I stand, as a member of this House, to interpose my endeavours towards the vindication of justice, and the service of my country. For this purpose, and in this debate, it will not be necessary to go into the several clauses of the Bill with a minute exactness. It will be sufficient for your Lordships to consider the general nature and character of the Bill, to advert to its operation and tendency, and to estimate its fitness and its wisdom, by the qualities that shall be discovered in its nature and character, and by the consequences that are to result from it.

This, Bill, my Lords, is held out to us in various lights, and under various characters. It is sometimes described to us as a bill of trade and commercial regulation, to regulate and restrain North American Commerce, and in so doing to strengthen and increase the commercial interest of tills country. At other times we are told it is a bill of political operation; that it is to increase our maritime power, by augmenting the British Fishery at Newfoundland; and it is most industriously inculcated by official authority, that the Fishery of Great Britain and Ireland there, is the great, and perhaps the only source of our marine. We are told by some, that this is a bill of firmness and of vigour, to fill up the measure of justice, and to inflict condign punishment on the obstinate and rebellious Colonists; but other of your Lordships informs us, that it is a bill of mercy and clemency, kind and indulgent to the Americans, calculated to soothe their minds, and to favour and assist their interest. But my Lords, the true character of the Bill is violent and hostile. My Lords, it is a bill of war; it draws the sword, and in its necessary consequences plunges the Empire into civil and unnatural war. This, my Lords, is the true description of the Bill; and the various contradictory opinions on it, which I have already stated, will be found by your Lordships, when you consider this subject with due attention, not only contradicted by themselves, but by the truth and reason of things. The evidence yesterday produced at your bar was anxiously examined, to prove the beneficial effects, of the Bill to this country, both in its commercial and political character; but when your Lordships recollect the persons who appeared at your bar, to decide points of such importance and such magnitude, you will reject, with due contempt, their petty and interested testimony. A Mr. Lyster, of Poole, and a Captain Davis, were to instruct your Lordships in the political system of Great Britain and America. Mr. Lyster, of Poole, was to convince your Lordships, that the profits of the commerce of America did not enrich this country; and Mr. Lyster, of Pooh, and his brother-politician, were to satisfy the Legislature of this country that the utter destruction pf American trade would strengthen the Navy, and invigorate the marine of England: and from their redoubtable testimony we were to believe, that the Fishery at present carried on by New England, might be supplied and continued by a sufficient number of Men and Ships from Great Britain and Ireland! that foreign markets should still be amply furnished; and that five or six hundred thousand Pounds, the value of the North American Fishery, should be continued, if not increased, to this country, by our own efforts, independently of them ! Why, my Lords, or how? Because Mr. Lyster, of Poole, and his friend Captain Davis, were to gain two or three hundred Pounds a year by the operation of this Bill. Your Lordships see the frivolous and contemptible nature of such evidence. The narrow and interested minds of such men are totally unfit for such mighty discussions. Their little distorted scale of understanding cannot comprise, nor comprehend the policy of Nations; but a noble Lord, at the head of a Naval Department, warmly supports this Bill, because, in his opinion also, it is to derive prodigious advantages to our Navy, I do not wonder at the noble Lord's embracing every idea which seems to have that tendency; but I cannot agree that these advantages to our Navy, so contended and hoped for, even if they were proved, are to be decisive arguments to your Lordships to commit this Bill. Though our Navy were to receive the addition of five hundred Seamen, or five thousand, I cannot think with the noble Lord, that we are therefore merely to give effect to a measure which involves the ruinous consequences that I shall have the honour of submitting to your Lordships.

But, my Lords, it is much relied on, that our general trade will not suffer, nor diminish, by the particular restrictions imposed on our American Fishery by this Bill. My Lords, this is a question of the most doubtful and dangerous nature, and requires the most circumspect attention from your Lordships. The benefits of trade we know are infinite, and the danger of tampering with it, is in proportion. When we consider its circuity, the various lines it forms, and the many channels through which, its several streams flow to a common centre, we shall find it is easy to disturb, but most difficult to restore, the complicated arrangement. The sources are so subtile, and the complication so intricate, that these golden streams, if once disturbed, may be irrecoverably lost, and may imperceptibly glide into channels the most hostile and pernicious. But, it has been observed and argued, that in this great question, trade is a secondary consideration; that it is subordinate