because he believed they tended to effect peace and reunion. But, he added, it seems to me, unfortunately for both countries, that we have lost sight of the end in the means. It is no longer a question whether reconciliation is best brought about by concession or force; but whether or not we shall engage in a ruinous and expensive war, till one or both countries is sacrificed to resentment, on a barren point of honour. I call the subject of our dispute a barren point of honour, for I am persuaded there is scarce a man in this country who thinks now that America, if subdued, will be brought to submit to taxation. Be the right of the Legislature what it may, such as I have conversed with hold the exercise of it not only inexpedient but impracticable. Admit, then, the point of honour established by a series of victories, it must still remain a barren speculative principle of pre-eminence; and all the advantage which can possibly be expected from it can never be adequate to the expense of blood and treasure that must necessarily be wasted in the fruitless acquisition.

The noble Viscount who has moved this Address, has been pleased to lay a great stress upon the assurances given by the Courts of France and Spain. I am free to admit that nothing is to be apprehended from either of our rival powers, while our domestick disputes continue. They must be bad politicians, indeed, to hazard anything for reducing our force, while they see us so eagerly doing their business at our own expense.

The other noble Viscount who has seconded this Address, has acquainted your Lordships that, to his own personal knowledge, our great manufacturing towns feel no decline of trade from the interruption of the American commerce. They have, his Lordship says, as full employment and as ample orders from their factors as ever. Be it so: What is it that the noble Lord can infer from this concession, unless it is that our manufactures can do as well without the American trade as with it? Why, then, I would ask, are we sacrificing the flower of our army, and burdening posterity with an enormous debt? Better, surely, will it be to cut off at once a limb that is of no use, than to hazard the mortification of the whole body, by endeavouring to preserve it.

His Lordship proceeded then to give his opinion upon the use that might be made of the Petition from the Congress, as a ground of conciliation. I am free to own, said he, I consider the Petition as a refined piece of political subtlety; yet I plainly perceive from it, that there is either a difference of sentiment among the leaders, or that the bulk of the people do not even now wish for a total separation, whatever may be the object of some among the leaders who direct their councils.

It is evident that the Petition is expressed in terms which, considering the circumstances of the country, are more moderate and dutiful than could have been expected. Suppose, then, that this was calculated to gain the approbation of such as wished still for peace and conciliation: it is plain that some such there still are among them and that their leaders thought it prudent to manage them, though they had address enough to clog the whole with a title and subscription which they meant should render it inadmissible. Are your Lordships to be so imposed upon? Will you be for rejecting this Petition altogether, or will you not find some means of admitting it, so as to defeat the purposes of those who in their hearts are enemies of peace? I beg leave to remind the House of a wise answer given lately by one of his Majesty’s Governours to a Petition of a Provincial Congress: “I cannot,” says Sir James Wright, “look upon your meeting as constitutional; but as your Petition is expressed in terms of duty and loyalty, and the ends proposed are such as every good man must wish to promote, I shall consent.”

To conclude: was there no other consideration than the great importance of the question, whereon not the commerce only, but in a great measure the very being of the British empire depends, it would justify delay, till all the light which can be collected is thrown upon the subject. The amendment proposed by the noble Marquis seems directed principally to this end, and for that reason I shall give my consent to it. Whatever vote your Lordships shall hereafter come to, weigh first the hazards of war, weigh the heavy expense of acquiring your object against its real value. I am too much pleased with the spirit of the noble Lord’s [Lyttleton] idea, who declares the British troops are Invincible, to question it. Cast the sword of victory, then, into the scale of honour. It will still be found wanting.

The Earl of Sandwich, rising to explain, was called to order; but insisting on his right to be heard, said, he bad no intention to depreciate the character of the noble Earl, who, he understood, was prevented by illness from attending his duty in Parliament; he never meant to ridicule him, and still much less so in his absence.

The Duke of Grafton rose to explain, concerning something which had furnished Lord Sandwich with an opportunity of supposing his Grace had passed some degree of censure on the naval operations carried on in America. Nothing, he assured his Lordship and the House, could be further from his intentions; for he had a very high esteem for the gentlemen of the navy, and took a very peculiar pride in being immediately descended from one of the profession.

Viscount Townshend replied, it was a question he could by no means undertake to answer; that he was acquainted only with that part in which he had acted himself; that there was a very able man (Sir Jeffery Amherst) who, it was reported, would shortly be called up to a seat in that House : this gentleman had traversed the principal communications of the Northern parts of that Continent: and he believed had been consulted. He assured their Lordships that, for his own part, he had never been applied to, in council or elsewhere; but if the question had been put generally to him, whether such a force was sufficient for the purpose, he should very fairly reply, from his general knowledge, and from all the lights he had been able to obtain from history, that he never knew an instance where sixty thousand men were in possession of the posts proper to be occupied, in which they had failed. [Several questions of a similar nature were put to him; but his Lordship seemed willing to avoid giving any specifick answer.]

The Earl of Dartmouth was astonished how any noble Lord could condemn Administration, or withdraw his support from them, without at least giving them a fair trial; it was never supposed, if America united, that to reduce them would be the work of one summer; the measures of last session were directed to the safety and protection of the Province of Massachusetts-Bay entirely; as such, they had been wisely planned, and must have been successful, if a variety of events, impossible to be foreseen or provided against, had not united to defeat them; such, in particular, was the change of sentiments in the people of New-York, and the unexpected unanimity and unforeseen measures adopted by the Continental Congress.

Earl Grosvenor said, he was not used to speaking. Politicks were not in his way; but he thought the King’s speech was a good speech, and as such ought to be answered in the terms moved by the noble Lord.

The Duke of Manchester, after examining the true purport of the Speech, which he treated as the speech of the Minister, submitted his reasons for disapproving of the Address, and for agreeing with the amendment. His Grace observed, that it had been the general language of the Ministry, and many other noble Lords last session, to impute all opposition to their measures to factious and ambitious motives. He was sorry to hear the same language renewed this day. His Grace solemnly protested, as long as he had the honour of a seat in that House, he would never endure it. If the noble Lords who made the accusations had grounds to justify what they said, he called on them to bring them forward, or confess they had no authority for what they said or insinuated. If they are silent, then, said his Grace, I shall suppose they have none. The House must suppose so, and as such will not permit them to interrupt or disturb that decorum and freedom of debate for which your Lordships have at all times been so justly distinguished.

[Mention was made, by some of the Lords in Administration, of the several addresses lately presented to his Majesty; that they contained the fullest approbation of