the learned Lord’s own ideas; for if the King could delegate the power of pardoning and receiving submissions, the act of Parliament says no more; and as to any power of conceding or conciliating upon terms short of unconditional submission, which is an explanation too improbable for your Lordships to look for unless preceded by actual conquest, his Lordship, I dare say, on reflection, is perfectly satisfied that no such power is contained or delegated by the clause in question.

Viscount Weymouth. My Lords, a question has been pressed by a noble Lord [Lyttelton] relative to the present disposition of the Courts of Versailles and Madrid, which I do not think myself at all bound to answer, as a member of this House, nor in any other capacity, unless called upon by an address to the Crown for papers. I am happy, however, to remove the doubts suggested by the noble Lord, by assuring your Lordships, that at no time within my recollection had this country less reason to be jealous or suspicious of the dispositions and intentions of those Courts than at present. His Majesty’s Ministers have received repeated assurances, accompanied by the most unequivocal proofs, of their pacifick intentions; and I am further convinced that, although they should have entertained sentiments diametrically opposite to those they profess, they have it no more in their power than in their inclination to effectuate any measure which might be the means of involving this country in a war, or of impeding the plan of operations designed to be carried into execution for the purpose of reducing our Colonies to a state of constitutional obedience to the power and Government of this country. The noble Duke who made the motion had stated a fact, relative to two French gentlemen arriving in the Rebel camp, and after having an interview with the General, of their proceeding to the Congress at Philadelphia. I have heard that there were two persons at the head-quarters at Cambridge, of the description mentioned; but when I heard it, I was of the same opinion as now, that their presence there proceeded from motives very different from those I hear assigned this day. I looked upon it, that they were gentlemen who were making a tour of the American Continent for their amusement, or merchants, who went there to negotiate matters in the way of trade, on their own private account; and I think so still.

The Duke of Grafton. My Lords, I have long observed, that some persons, from long experience in the modes of controversy adopted in the Courts below, where matters are frequently represented in every light but the true one, have acquired a knack of holding up the weak parts of a debate ludicrously; and when they find themselves pressed in argument, resort to ridicule, in order to draw the attention of the House to extraneous matter. Thus the learned Lord [Mansfield] has claimed a kind of triumph, by commenting upon everything which seemed not immediately to relate to the motion now before your Lordships; and, in the very spirit of the conduct he has reprehended in others, has sat down without saying anything, or next to nothing, on the question under consideration. I differ widely from the learned Lord; for I shall ever be of opinion, that every object connected with the present cause of dispute with America, the different measures which arose in consequence of that dispute, and the conduct of that war, by which the friends and supporters of Administration mean to terminate it, are all subjects well worthy of your Lordships’ consideration and investigation; for it is evident, that those several objects are not separate and distinct, but form one great whole, which cannot be properly examined or discussed, unless you consider its several parts at one view. I confess, my Lords, that I find myself much hurt to perceive a question of so much importance treated in so ludicrous and trivial a manner. I therefore trust that your Lordships will impute any warmth I may have betrayed on the present occasion purely to the cause I have now mentioned. I hope I have too great respect for your Lordships, to offer any motion to your consideration which I thought did not merit the attention of Parliament; and, I own, I cannot avoid being much surprised, that an attempt to have it laughed away should be made; when I am conscious that I took every possible precaution in my power, to frame it in such a manner as to leave the subject open, and not by narrowing it preclude every part of the House to unite on some general principle, which might, on the onset, be the means of putting a speedy stop to the further effusion of human blood. But, ray Lords, nothing which has happened on the present occasion can induce me to desist from what I have so sincerely at heart, the restoration of peace. I am willing to give up any part of the motion which may seem objectionable to those who only have it in their power to give it effectual support. I am ready to alter, omit, or amend, so that the principle of conciliation, which was my motive for submitting it to your Lordships, be preserved. I am desirous, my Lords, in conformity to what I said on the opening of my motion, that it should be sent to a committee to consider of it, and report their opinion thereon to the House. And I once more conjure your Lordships to reflect, that the honour of Parliament, the prosperity and dearest interests of both countries, the lives of thousands of British subjects, are at stake; that the present is probably the only moment you will ever have to snatch them from the ruin which will otherwise inevitably await them; and that the consequences of neglecting this opportunity will be the source of endless mourning and lamentation to ages yet unborn.

The previous question was then put, “Whether the said question shall be now put?”

It was resolved in the negative. Contents 28; Proxies 3. Non-Contents 71; Proxies 20.

HOUSE OF COMMONS.

Monday, April 1, 1776.

Before the Order of the Day was read, Mr. Hartley spoke as follows:

The noble Lord who presides in the Department of the Revenue, having announced to the House that he intends to lay the state of the nation before us, on the first day of business after the recess, I hope that it will not appear foreign to that purpose if I suggest to them the necessity of some proper materials being laid upon the table, by the help of which we may be better prepared to enter upon so important a discussion. The state of the national revenue and expenditure, together with the sufficiency or insufficiency of the national powers, are very properly termed by the very noble Lord to be the state of the nation. It is a subject of such infinite importance, that I need make no apology to the House, in the present state of things, for recommending a prudent forecast of the ruinous consequences which must inevitably attend the civil war with our Colonies, into which this nation is so blindly and precipitately driven by its Ministers. The enormity of the expense, which I shall endeavour to explain to you under the several branches this day, is but the least part of the evil. Even what Administration would call success would be more irrecoverable ruin, by destroying the very source of wealth and strength to this country, than almost any anticipation of the revenue in the first instance.

These are matters of such importance that I should think myself highly criminal, and a deserter of the trust reposed in me as a member of Parliament, if I did not offer to the House, with great deference, such materials and information as have fallen in my own way, in the course of my best endeavours to obtain information for myself, on the subject of the publick revenue. Reposing myself upon that candour of the House which I have so often experienced, I will endeavour to state a few plain facts and plain consequences, without partiality or bias, without respect of persons, and without fear or favour.

It is so much the more necessary that we should come to some explicit understanding of these matters, as the most profound secrecy and concealment have been practised to keep alarming truths from the publick eye, and false pretences have been thrown out to amuse the credulous confidence of this House. It is not many months ago, (no longer than the last session,) that any member who got up to warn you of the serious and fatal consequences of the war then recommended against America, was laughed at in his place; the very suggestion was treated as being so ridiculous, that the Minister proposed to you to begin by disarming—by voting four thousand seamen less than you had kept the year before; and not many days after the meeting of the new Parliament, a vote of three shillings land tax was proposed, with a view to sooth the landed men into a confidential compliance with the measures of Administration, and into the adoption of this fatal war. That this step was

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