of September,1775, be adjourned till to-morrow; and that Mr. Penn do then attend.

Lord Lyttelton thought the notice much too short. He said it would be a singular hardship on Mr. Penn, to be obliged to attend at their Lordships’ bar, and to undergo a long examination, in the course of which a variety of questions might be propounded, difficult to answer, on many accounts, and in some extremely unpleasant and disagreeable. On this account, as well as wishing to give the gentleman time to arrange his ideas on so important a subject, he expressed a desire that the examination might be deferred till Wednesday or Friday sevennight.

The Duke of Richmond observed, that he imagined his Lordship’s solicitude might be spared. He believed Mr. Penn was fully prepared, nay, it might be fairly and reasonably presumed he was; as he must, from the nature of his office, connections, and situation, have frequently turned his thoughts to the subject. It was the general, the only topick of the country he had just left; in fine, it was uppermost in every man’s mind, almost on either side of the At-lantick, who reasoned or thought at all on subjects of such a nature.

Earl Gower pointed out the impropriety of examining Mr. Penn, either as his information might affect himself, or affect others. He said, the consequences of disclosing matters, in which several persons now in America were concerned, ought, to be proceeded on with all possible caution and circumspection.

The Earl of Dartmouth reasoned in the same manner; and proposed that Mr. Penn should be indulged with a privilege of refusing to answer any question which he should imagine might be injurious either to himself or to others. He likewise objected to the motion in point of time, and proposed an amendment to the purport of the amendment first suggested by him; but he framed no question on it.

Lord Camden condemned the noble Earl’s proposition for amendment, in strong terms. It was true, he said, that House was not tied up by the rigorous rules of proceedings in relation to evidence observed by the Courts in Westminster Hall; for though they were a court of law, they acted upon a more liberal plan. They excused on account of indisposition; they made great allowances in respect of their mode of examination; they pressed no gentlemen wantonly into disagreeable situations; they avoided, as much as possible, any explanations that might hurt the feelings of the witness. All those liberal modes of proceeding they had constantly adhered to. In the exercise of their judicature, they acted with a noble and indulgent liberality; but in so doing, they took care never to turn their backs on the eternal obligations they are always under of dispensing justice, as the first and most essential object of their duty; and their strict attention to such a conduct still became more necessary, according to the magnitude of the object in contemplation. What, then, is the purport of the noble Earl’s proposition? Why, that in a matter every way answering to the cases I have discriminated from ordinary occurrences, that in such a matter Mr. Penn shall be excused from answering only as much as he pleases. No, my Lords, I trust no such doctrine will ever prevail in this House. Though I have a high esteem for the gentleman whose name has been so often mentioned in this debate, I confess, if he were my dearest and most intimate friend I should positively reject any proposal for granting so unprecedented an indulgence, particularly on the present occasion, when so much may depend on his testimony; when, I may venture to add, his testimony may nearly affect the dearest and most important interests of this country.

The Earl of Denbigh moved an amendment to be made to the said motion, by leaving out the words “to-morrow,” and instead thereof, inserting “Friday next.”

The Earl of Shelburne was severe on the arguments used by the noble Lords in Administration, relative to concealing people’s names. He always suspected those who gave private information under a condition of secrecy. This species of secret-telling was generally founded in personal interest, or sinister views; for which reason, whenever secrets coming under this description were imparted to him, he never hesitated on the propriety of repeating them, unless absolute silence was enjoined. Such were the sort of persons, and such were the views he had strong reason to suspect, by which the noble Earl in office and the rest of his brethren had been deceived; and he was sorry to understand, by the whole of the doctrines and arguments urged in the course of the debate on the other side of the House, that such men are to be suffered to pursue their own interest, at the expense of the publick; and by being thus protected by promises of concealment, will, in the end, he feared, be permitted to escape with impunity.

The question was put, Whether the words “to-morrow” shall stand part of the said motion?

It was resolved in the negative.

The question was then put on inserting “Friday next,” and it was resolved in the affirmative: Contents 52; Non-contents 21.

Ordered, That the further consideration of said Paper, intituled “Copy of the Petition of the Congress to the King,” delivered to the Earl of Dartmouth by Messrs. Penn and Lee, on the 1st of September,1775, be adjourned till Friday next; and that the Lords be summoned.

Ordered, That John Penn, Esq., do attend this House on Friday next.

Wednesday, November 8, 1775.

The House being moved, that the Order made yesterday for the attendance of John Penn, Esquire, on Friday next, might be read,

The said Order was accordingly read by the Clerk.

Ordered, That the said Order be discharged.

Ordered, That Richard Penn, Esquire, do attend this House on Friday next.

Friday, November 10, 1775.

The Duke of Richmond, before he began to examine Mr. Penn, begged leave to remove an apprehension which seemed to prevail with several of their Lordships the last day, lest that gentleman, from the delicacy of his situation, should be obliged to answer any question that might embarrass him in relation to persons or opinions, on which he would wish to be silent. Aware of this, he had drawn up the material questions he meant to put to the witness, and delivered him a copy, desiring to point out such, if any, as he wished to decline answering; but Mr. Penn, after having perused the paper, returned it to him, with an assurance that none of the questions came within the description his Grace seemed so solicitous to avoid.

The Earl of Sandwich animadverted obliquely on this procedure : said it looked as if the questions and answers had been previously consulted and agreed on between the noble Duke and the witness.

The Duke of Richmond observed, that was a most extraordinary interpretation the noble Earl put on his conduct: he imagined that the candour he had used on this occasion would have met with a different construction; and reprehended the noble Earl very severely on the impropriety of his conduct.

The Earl of Sandwich replied, that he was within the judgment of their Lordships, whether he deserved the reproof now given him; and explained his words by saying he did not mean any previous consultation as originating from his Grace, but merely a general consultation relative to the subject of examination.

The Order of the Day being read, for taking into further consideration the Paper laid before this House by the Earl of Dartmouth, on Monday last, by his Majesty’s command, intituled “Copy of the Petition of the Congress to the King,” delivered to the Earl of Dartmouth by Messrs. Penn and Lee, on the 1st of September,1775; and for the Lords to be summoned; and for the attendance of Richard Penn, Esq.:

The said Mr. Richard Penn was called in; and, being sworn, was examined at the bar as follows:

Q. How long have you resided in America?

A. I have resided there four years.

Q. How long were you in the Government in Pennsylvania?

A. Just two years.

Q. Do you know or have you heard of any violence or unfair proceedings in the election of the members of the Continental Congress?

A. I have not heard of any.

Q. Do you think the members are men well informed of