the right of making which was disputed, and the power of carrying them into execution opposed by arms. Either the Colonies must lay down their arms voluntarily, and acknowledge the supreme legislative authority of Great Britain, or they must be compelled so to do, before any negotiation can take place; for it would be the most humiliating disgrace to treat with Rebels on the footing of free States. He therefore gave his hearty concurrence to the motion; and hoped that every Briton would concur in opinion with him, first to reduce this formidable American confederacy to obedience, and then, after acknowledging their error in seeking redress by force of arms, to render them strict justice in regard to their complaints. His idea, therefore, was, that at present the Americans are in actual rebellion; but if other gentlemen are of opinion that they are in a state of resistance which they justify, they are called upon to take up their defence, not by speeches in this House, but by arms. Why do not they go and join them? That would be the true mode.

Lord Howe acknowledged the force of the honourable gentleman’s argument; but lamented the struggle which every British officer must feel whose lot it was to serve in such critical situations. When engaged in a foreign war, his Lordship observed, the glory of his country animated the breast of every British soldier, and warmed him with an ardour to glow for victory; but on the present occasion, though duty required him to obey command, and his honour was engaged to maintain his post, yet that alacrity for battle must be wanting by which British soldiers are distinguished from all others. He doubted not, he said, but that the difference had been felt by his worthy relation now entrusted with a most important command; he knew it would be felt by himself in like circumstances, yet were it the will of his Prince so to order, he should think it a dishonour to decline the service.

Mr. Fox rose to fix his Lordship to the point. He said, gentlemen of rank in the army were averse to the service; by their unwillingness to act, they bore testimony to the justice of the American cause, and showed their disapprobation of the measures pursuing against them.

Lord Howe rose to explain. He should certainly decline to serve from the sense he had of the right and importance of such a trust; the service was not such as he should wish to solicit; but if he were commanded upon it, he most certainly should think it his duty to obey, and he could not refuse to serve.

Lord Frederick Campbell was clearly for maintaining the sovereignty of the British Legislature at whatever risk; said it was the sense of the nation, not only now, but at all times heretofore; and wondered that a point of such notoriety should meet with one dissenting voice. When those gentlemen who repealed the Stamp Act came into that measure, they did not venture to do it without bringing in the Declaratory Bill, to mark the sovereignty of this country, and to show that they did not give it up. No man or party now in the kingdom dared to repeal the Declaratory Act; even a great Minister, whose measure the repeal was, when he quoted Prior—

“Be to her faults a little blind, Be to her virtues very kind;”

everybody knows the next line, which he did not quote:

“Let all her ways be unconfined.”

If that great Minister did not venture to hold that language, I may assert no other man in this country would.

General Conway, thinking, as he did, that the interests of this country depended upon an union with America, and that the union would remain so long as that interest was rightly pursued, did not see the necessity of the Declaratory law: he thought it right that the supremacy of this country should be established to all points which were necessary, but not to taxation. He had flattered himself that the idea of taxation had been wholly given up by everybody; but since a noble Lord had come into office, it seemed as if the dispute on that question was revived. He thought the fire had been smothered, but since that noble Lord came into office, he had uncovered the ashes and blown the flame afresh. Our supremacy over the Colonies is of the essence of our relation to them. But may I not make an exception?-there is no law without an exception. The House of Lords and Commons have each of them their rights, which are generally understood; but if we were to go into disputes, with all the prejudices of each House respecting power, we could do no business, and there would be an end of Parliament. For argument’s sake, therefore, I may allow, that our right of taxation is a clear and distinct right, which in my conscience I believe to be no right; yet, would it be for the interest and good of this country to go to war about exerting it? As to the forces of the two countries: speaking of our own, however high our discipline might be supposed to be, yet compared with many other countries, it would be found very inferior; but yet that the courage and spirit of our people supplied that defect. That the forces of America, though certainly inferior to ours in discipline, were already much beyond anything we had any idea of, and would, in the course of war, be trained, and as well disciplined as ours. In point of courage, he could make no distinction wherever a Briton dwelt; but this everybody must remark, that there was a certain spring and zeal, which an animation for liberty always gave, beyond any other cause. Supposing each party to have an army of fifty thousand men, he thought the Americans would prove a match for the British troops, as they contended upon principle for liberty, which he thought would render them superior to our advantage from discipline. As to that part of the proposed bill which related to the Commissioners, he could say but little, as nothing had been explained; only that, so far as his opinion and vote went, he would never trust any power to any Commissioners whatsoever, without a distinct and direct line laid down in Parliament. The subject of military obedience having been started, it might, in the eyes of some, look like an unworthy shrinking from the question, if he did not say a few words to it. He did not imagine there could be any struggle in the mind of a military man so dreadful as any doubts of this kind. There was a great difference between a foreign war, where the whole community was involved, and a domestick war on points of civil contention, wherein the community was divided. In the first case, no officer ought to call in question the justice of his country; in the latter, a military man, before he drew his sword against his fellow-subjects, ought to ask himself whether the cause was just or not. He quoted the story of the massacre of St. Bartholomew, and the answer of the Count De Torden, and concluded with saying, that if he thought of this case as De Torden did of that, all emoluments, nay, the sacrifice of what people in his situation held dearest, their honour, all this would be nothing in the scale with his conscience: he never could draw his sword in the cause.

The Attorney-General [Mr. Thurlow.] Let the honourable gentleman justify his conscience to himself, but not hold it out as a point of doctrine to be taken up in a certain quarter and line of service, where his opinions might be supposed to have very great influence; for if those opinions were once established as matter of doctrine, they must necessarily go to a dissolution of all Government. Turning to Mr. Burke’s late proposition, he said, however amusing and ingenious it was, it drew to no conclusion, and though called a proposition, ended in no proposition at all: it talked of conciliation and union between Great Britain and her Colonies, without stating, in any one instance, the relation in which they do or ought to stand. He gave an account of what he called the general spirit of Opposition, in which the Opposition having got beyond all line of reasoning, they did nothing but scold at arguments which they could not refute. He now clearly understood Lord North’s proposition, and approved of it, because it retained the habitual exercise of taxation, and left an opening to America, of a permission to raise her share of the supply towards the common defence, by granting it in her own Assemblies, and giving it in her own way. On this ground he was willing to coincide, not only in a plan, but in anything that might give a ground for a conciliation with America; yet he thought the only sure and permanent ground would be to define the relation between the mother country and her Colonies. He added, that, as Attorney-General, he had a right, by writ of scire facias, to set aside every charter in America; but that, in our present situation, such a process would be justly the object of ridicule, for the conduct of America was not a matter for judicial, but Parliamentary animadversion.

Mr. Burke. The plan of this year is to enforce the conciliatory motion of last year by military execution. To the charge of not having defined the relation between Great Britain and her Colonies, he replied, that the silly, wicked