but that vigorous and seasonable armaments produced peace, as he hoped that we were proceeding to vote, would do on the present occasion.

Lord John Cavendish insisted he was right, though the fact might have been seemingly as the noble Lord stated it; for the point in issue was, the disavowal of the Court of Spain, which preceded the increased naval and military estimates; and the only matter which remained to be adjusted at the time the House voted the money, was barely the punctilio, who should disarm first. The House was, therefore, deceived. He remembered a prodigious naval establishment was voted in the year alluded to; we suddenly disarmed, and yet the demands on Parliament the succeeding session, and ever since, were as high as if no such armament, accompanied by the circumstances now mentioned, had been ever voted.

Mr. Dempster complimented General Conway, both in his civil and military capacity. He replied to an observation of Mr. Jenkinson relative to the General’s contending that the Americans were justifiable in resisting the execution of an act he had himself, in his Ministerial character, brought into that House, the Declaratory Act. He contended there was no manner of inconsistency in the right honourable gentleman’s conduct; for when the bill asserted that Great Britain was sovereign, and had a right to make laws for the Colonies in all cases whatsoever, the true construction of that law, the intention of those who framed and supported it was, that the Parliament of Great Britain had a right to bind the Colonies constitutionally, not arbitrarily; they had a right to secure their dependancy on the mother country, not to tax them unrepresented, nor condemn them unheard; they had a right to rule them like Englishmen, not to oppress them like slaves.

Governour Johnstone was not surprised Administration were unwilling to give information; for he believed they had none. A remarkable proof of it, he said, was, that Mr. Penn had not, since his arrival from the very city where the Congress had twice assembled and deliberated, been asked a single question; hot even when he presented the Petition from the American Congress to the noble Lord who is Secretary of State for that Department.

Governour Pownall (who had been up several times before, but the Chairman pointed to others) began with observing that still persevering, he arose to speak under every disadvantage and ill impression that a man could offer himself. He appeared, he said, like one determined to force his impertinences on the House, and to obtrude opinions which the committee were unwilling to hear, yet that was not his turn of character; he very seldom troubled them, but at present, besides the desire he had to speak his mind, he had particular reasons respecting himself and his conduct in this business, which he wished to give, in explanation of what might be otherwise much misunderstood and much misrepresented. He said, he had been invariably an advocate for peace; was so at this hour, and ever should be; and yet, circumstanced as affaire now were between this country and America, he should give his vote against our laying down our arms, and for the continuance and strengthening of our force. If ever, said he, I had misrepresented the state of facts; if ever I had used the information of which I was possessed either to trumpet up a false alarm, or to give false hopes; if ever I gave or supported an opinion to serve any party whatever; if ever in any instance I treated these matters as party matters, I should be ashamed to rise in this House; I should not dare to open my mouth on the subject now, in this horrid period of events. Now that I am going to speak to facts, and give my opinion on those facts, if there is any person who can fix upon any one article in which I ever misinformed the House, either as to a single fact, or as to the effects of things, I beg he may not only disbelieve me now, but mark the fact. He said, that in the wretched commencement of this sad business, in the year 1769, he had given his opinion against measures of force, and by stating the evil and destructive consequences of such measures, had endeavoured to turn the mind of our leaders from measures of force to modes of policy; he had never varied from that line either in his conduct or opinion. Was it now in the power of the House to have a choice, and was it now the question whether we should pursue this civil quarrel under modes of policy or by measures of force, he should now, as he did in 1769, give his opinion and his vote against force. But that was not the ground on which we stood; our debates were not whether or no we should go to war; we were at war. The Americans (by a miserable fatality become our enemies) “had closed with us in an appeal from reason to arms,” “were determined to use the power which their Beneficent Creator had put into their hands, and to persevere with the utmost energy in the cause in which they were fatally involved. That they had great internal resources, and every reasonable and well-grounded assurance of foreign aid.” That while they thought that we expected of them an unconditional submission, their ultimatum held out to us was, the laying down our arms, and a confession and relinquishing of our errors in opinion and conduct. That so going back to 1763, a period in which these errors were realized by practice, they might then treat with us as to what remained. He said the winter of course gave a natural respite to military force. He wished any ground might be found to give an actual suspension of arms; but he could not, as a Britain, and in a British House of Commons, entertain the idea, in the face of the enemy under arms, of our laying down our arms, and surrendering at discretion. He wished for peace; he thought peace might be had; but as the Americans were in all events prepared for war, they set us the example; we should also be prepared, if peace could not be had this winter. The Americans meditated, and were able to establish, and would establish, as an independent state, a Republick; “but necessity,” to use their own words, “had not yet driven them to that desperate measure. They still wish to remain united to the nation, subordinate to the mother country, obedient to its sovereignty. They still lamented, as the last and worst of all evils, (slavery only excepted,) the breach with us, and most sincerely and ardently wished a reconciliation.” He said, he was of opinion that peace might be had on safe and honourable terms; he ventured very peremptorily to affirm it. He said, You may, if you will, have peace on terms which will save the honour of Government; which will establish the sovereignty of this country, a constitutional sovereignty; and restore the union of the empire in all its commercial felicity; and, those matters settled, you may have a revenue by compact. But this peace is not to be obtained by dishonourable concessions and repeals. Repeals of statutes back to the year 1763 would give them the advantage-ground, while concessions would cut the ground from under your own feet. You would concede, by such preliminaries, data from whence conclusions, which you could not resist, would be drawn, to the giving much more than is now asked. And yet every justice might; be done to the rights and claims of the Americans, and even your own rights and sovereignty confirmed and established without these direct concessions and repeals. By a revision and reforming of your whole system, in the true spirit of the establishment of your Colonies, in the true spirit of your act of navigation and the laws of trade, as first formed in Lord Clarendon’s time, who understood the affairs of the Colonies better than ever they have been understood since.

This being his full persuasion, and having assured himself from his Majesty’s speech, that however necessary it had been thought, and really was, to prepare for war at all events; yet his Majesty’s Ministers had engaged themselves to some plan of pacification. This, he said, he thought was a matter so much to be wished, and which was truly so much wished, that, as far as in him lay, he should give his aid and assistance to it. That he wished as anxiously and as ardently as the gentlemen who called upon Ministers to produce their plan, to see it come forward; and did hope they would produce it. He hoped that every line that might lead to peace would be tried before the opening of the next campaign; but yet thought that, by a respectable and even formidable armament, we ought to be prepared for that campaign, if necessity obliged us to open it. But setting his foot firm on this ground of peace, he thought that those whom his Majesty entrusted with his powers of Government could alone make it; that therefore, under the same idea by which he objected to the present motion, he should object to the bringing forward any other propositions, by any person whatsoever, which was meant to anticipate, or to frustrate those measures of peace, which he hoped he should see put by his Majesty into the hands: of his Ministers; that until we saw how far these were practicable and honourable, or otherwise, he should be against any other